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Tennis edits[edit]

Please note that these two categories have very different scopes, despite being subcategories. One is for winners of the adult tournament--"Category:French Open champions, one is for winners of the juniors tournament. People can and should be categorised in both if they won both as juniors and adults. "Courcelles ("talk) 14:02, 8 May 2018 (UTC)

Is the junior competition a subset of the adult competition, or a separate competition? A search for the word "junior" in "French Open finds nothing, and I can't find an article French Open Junior (or variations thereof).
Either way, it looks like a change to "Category:French Open junior champions is required (either remove it from, or declare it non-diffusing). Perhaps you can choose and make the appropriate change. "Mitch Ames ("talk) 12:09, 9 May 2018 (UTC)
They're separate competitions, but held at the same time. I'd make French Open Champions non-diffusing. "Courcelles ("talk) 12:19, 9 May 2018 (UTC)
Presumably the junior competition is "owned" by the main competition (ie they're not completely independent) – https://www.rolandgarros.com/en-us/article/roland-garros-2018-junior-wild-card-competition-by-longines-brazil certainly suggests so. If it's worth a category for the junior winners, a subsection in "French Open mentioning the juniors would probably be a good idea. "Mitch Ames ("talk) 12:45, 9 May 2018 (UTC)

Mass category removal[edit]

Hi, just wondering why you removed "Category:Seven Network shows from a number of articles recently. You're edit summary "Remove supercategory of existing diffusing category per WP:SUBCAT using AWB" doesn't really work for many articles you've removed them from, given there is no subcat related to the Seven Network that I can see (eg. "Australian Survivor, "The X Factor (Australian TV series), "Australia's Got Talent, "Class of 74, "Sons and Daughters (Australian TV series)). Similarly, you've removed the category from "Better Homes and Gardens (TV series), presumably because "Category:7TWO shows is a subcat, but that doesn't work in the context, given first-run episodes of the show airs on 7Two in some states during football season, while remaining exclusively on the Seven Network in other states year round; both categories apply. May I suggest you review individual articles and restore the category to those now without -- "Whats new?"(talk) 01:12, 9 May 2018 (UTC)

"Australian Survivor is member of "Category:Australian Survivor which is a member of "Category:Seven Network shows. So the removal is legitimate on SUBCAT grounds – although admittedly "WP:EPONYMOUS allows it to stay, so feel free to revert. Likewise "The X Factor (Australian TV series) and "Australia's Got Talent.
"Class of 74 and "Sons and Daughters (Australian TV series) are both in "Category:Television series produced by The Reg Grundy Organisation, which is in "Category:Seven Network shows.
For "Better Homes and Gardens (TV series), "Category:7TWO shows – perhaps "Category:7TWO shows ought to be a {{"Non-diffusing subcategory}} of "Category:Seven Network shows, the ""special characteristic of interest" being "first shown on 7TWO". Although I wonder whether the problem is actually that "Category:7TWO shows is conflating two separate criteria: "produced for or by ... 7TWO" or "first shown on that network". Perhaps 7TWO needs to be split into two separate categories.
"Mitch Ames ("talk) 12:36, 9 May 2018 (UTC)
OK, thanks for responding, I see some of your points. I don't really understand why The Reg Grundy Organisation is a subcat, given it produced shows for multiple networks and not all shows in that category you mention are Seven Network shows. I think that probably needs to be undone. I don't disagree on the confusion of 7TWO shows category, but either way, the program airs on the Seven Network in all states for the first thirty minutes, then shifts to 7TWO in two states during football season, so it belongs in both. -- "Whats new?"(talk) 07:08, 10 May 2018 (UTC)
...The Reg Grundy Organisation ... produced shows for multiple networks and not all shows in that category you mention are Seven Network shows. — Fixed. [1][2][3] "Mitch Ames ("talk) 12:38, 10 May 2018 (UTC)

Political party categories[edit]

Please be more careful before making mass category changes on peculiar assumptions about categories that you think are "diffusing". In possibly the silliest example (in which you definitely should know better) you've removed the LDP, which has a Senator in NSW and a state MP in WA, from the Australian political parties category on the basis that it was in the Victorian one. You've removed a whole bunch of federally registered parties who run candidates in multiple states on a similar basis, which doesn't make any sense. This is not the first time you've made very silly edits by noticing that an article is listed in both a parent and child category and deciding to shoot the former at random. "The Drover's Wife ("talk) 12:51, 11 May 2018 (UTC)

It is in the national category because it is a national party, as is pretty obvious. If your understanding of the subjects you're making category changes to is this basic, you should not be making these kinds of edits. "The Drover's Wife ("talk) 12:53, 11 May 2018 (UTC)
Please add the {{"non-diffusing}} tag to the relevant categories (which are otherwise diffusing by default) where it is missing, so that it is obvious. (see also: "User_talk:The_Drover's_Wife#Reason_Party_(Australia)_categorisation "Mitch Ames ("talk) 12:55, 11 May 2018 (UTC)
No, you should think before you edit: these were patently nonsensical edits on something where all you had to do was skim the articles before recategorising them (and in an area where you often edit, no less!). National parties obviously belong in the national category - whether national parties should be also categorised where they have state parties is a question we've never resolved. The appropriate thing to do in that situation, if you're interested, would be to start a discussion about the state categories. The idea that "if an article is in a parent and a child category, I can whack the parent in each and every situation without thinking" is just plain wrong and leads to idiotic edits. "The Drover's Wife ("talk) 13:00, 11 May 2018 (UTC)
Discussion at "Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Australian politics#Categorisation of political parties in Australia ... "Mitch Ames ("talk) 12:26, 13 May 2018 (UTC)

New editors[edit]

Hi Mitch, recent discussions have centred around how to work with new editors one the key points is not to get bogged down in distractions over maintenance/gnome task but to keep them focused on the big picture articles content while they get acclimatised to the community. With the road stuff you have jumped in way too early on cats and refs as the pages were a demonstration of how & what with a GLAM the issue you are raising is exactly what they were worried about so you have successfully confirmed their worst nightmares about working with wikipedia. A single message to me rather than all the messages on different talk pages and pinging new editors would have got the same outcome, be bold it doesnt matter at the moment and once more info is created you'll see what you are suggesting right now wont be right either. "Gnan"garra 13:27, 14 May 2018 (UTC)

"... new editors ..." — The edit history of "Melbourne Street, Perth (at least until now) shows no new editors. The history of "List of streets in Perth shows that the article was created and edited by an experienced editor, at least up to the point that includes the mentions of Perth and Northbridge, and the City of Perth and CBD categories. I try to make allowances for new editors - but that does require knowing that there is a new editor.
"With the road stuff you have jumped in way too early on cats and refs" — If the articles are ready for article-space, then they are ready for discussion and improvement. If they were not ready for article-space then perhaps they should have been in draft-space, or at least tagged with {{"Under construction}} to give some hint to other editors that they shouldn't "jump in" and "discuss changes to the article.
"... their worst nightmares about working with wikipedia" — Such "hyperbole does not help matters. I politely pointed out issues and asked reasonable questions about the articles on the talk pages. That's what the talk pages are for. Perhaps you should point to those talk pages as examples of how Wikipedia editors can civilly discuss ways to improve articles.
"all the messages on different talk pages" — The points were raised on the articles' talk pages. That's "the purpose of an article's talk page. The post on "WT:WA#Perth streets was to catch WA editors (who have local knowledge of the topics) who might not have been watching the individual pages. {{"U}} is a legitimate way of notifying a user.
"Mitch Ames ("talk) 12:56, 15 May 2018 (UTC)
The "experience" editor was me, one question on one talk page would have resolved the whole issue. No its not hyperbole, it simple observation and experience word sleuthing and pinging new editors is biting and it scares editors away, you could see that the work had a new editor. As you know I expend considerable effort to bring new people to the projects, as for most of what you ask its meaningless as you have the experience to be bold with maintenance issues without messages spread across multiple pages asking the same question. "Gnan"garra 13:18, 15 May 2018 (UTC)

Read it carefully[edit]

MOS and first sentence does not say remove - it specifically explains redundancy - it does not say no lead sentence at all - reverting does not help

The point being even if a lead sentence is redundant - what I read in https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style/Lead_section#First_sentence it does not say to have no lead sentence at all - not the way I read it "JarrahTree 13:16, 17 May 2018 (UTC)

I await your ""clearer and more informative introduction to the list [that] is better than verbatim repetition of the title". "Mitch Ames ("talk) 13:18, 17 May 2018 (UTC)
why cannot you if youre editing it :) ?? "JarrahTree 13:20, 17 May 2018 (UTC)
I already fixed it once.... "Mitch Ames ("talk) 13:23, 17 May 2018 (UTC)
Also, feel free to re-apply my other perfectly valid edit ("MOS:CAPS) which you "accidentally reverted without explanation. (Perhaps you need to check the changes, and/or for edit conflicts when you edit.) "Mitch Ames ("talk) 13:23, 17 May 2018 (UTC)
I have no idea how that happened - sorry... "JarrahTree 13:35, 17 May 2018 (UTC)
Edit conflict templates look like malagasy texts transposed to japanese to me :( - as if I could explain them easily "JarrahTree 13:27, 17 May 2018 (UTC)
oh well - its all fun and games "JarrahTree 13:29, 17 May 2018 (UTC)
whats your opinion of the lead sentences now then? 13:48, 17 May 2018 (UTC)
("List of streets in Kings Park and West Perth) - Hay, Murray, Wellington Sts, Mounts Bay Rd suggest that the streets of West Perth are not separate from the CBD.
Is there some reason why the article combines Kings Park and West Perth? If there was, that reason might be used to create a meaningful sentence. "Mitch Ames ("talk) 13:59, 17 May 2018 (UTC)
Because theres like 6 streets in Kings park, historically in 1800 before Kings park was declared it was part of west perth then it became a separate identity in its own right until Barney reincorporated it into the City of Perth a couple of years ago, though it still Kings Park. "Gnan"garra 15:20, 17 May 2018 (UTC)
Something like "Kings Park was part of the suburb of West Perth until [year] when it became a separate suburb" would work - do we have a reference? "Mitch Ames ("talk) 13:29, 19 May 2018 (UTC)
hail to the difficulties of negotiating the Andes with either spade or frog. Monty Python here I go. Lookng forwrd to meeting up in real life, we might be able to negotiate better there. "JarrahTree 14:12, 17 May 2018 (UTC)

Conversion of Units[edit]


As per your recent copy edit on Point Walter, I was wondering what the guidelines are around inserting a convert template in regards to units of measurements, ie; when should they be avoided, when are they most appropriate, anything about having them in leads etc.

Cheers, "JoshMuirWikipedia ("talk) 12:26, 27 May 2018 (UTC)

The only specific guideline I can find is "MOS:CONVERSIONS (and the shorter version "WP:MOS#Units of measurement), which says "Where English-speaking countries use different units for the same quantity, provide a conversion in parentheses ... Generally, conversions to and from metric units and US or imperial units should be provided ..."
I've added the conversions to the lead section now. "Mitch Ames ("talk) 11:39, 28 May 2018 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for May 28[edit]

Hi. Thank you for your recent edits. An automated process has detected that when you recently edited "Point Walter, you added a link pointing to the disambiguation page "Hyden (check to confirm | fix with Dab solver). Such links are "usually incorrect, since a disambiguation page is merely a list of unrelated topics with similar titles. (Read the "FAQ • Join us at the "DPL WikiProject.)

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Fixed. "Mitch Ames ("talk) 09:46, 28 May 2018 (UTC)

Your eagle eye[edit]

Please on "South_Australian_Chamber_of_Mines_and_Energy there seems little understanding of what wikipedia is - Ia msure you are better than I to clear the deck... so to speak, thanks "JarrahTree 04:33, 30 May 2018 (UTC) nah its a mess


your help at the lists of streets appears to be of good assistance from where I look at it - thank you "JarrahTree 12:21, 30 May 2018 (UTC)

Shortcut to "Wikipedia talk:WikiTown/Toodyaypedia[edit]

something doesnt exist - why not create rather than delete ? "JarrahTree 06:48, 2 June 2018 (UTC)

──────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────── Assuming (in the absence of any link or other hint ...) that we're talking about this ...
Because that shortcut does not comply with "WP:SCNAMES and "Shortcuts that do not follow the ... naming convention are discouraged, and are typically deleted." "Mitch Ames ("talk) 06:59, 2 June 2018 (UTC)

hohum - i am sure there are rules that you can always dig up. "JarrahTree 07:01, 2 June 2018 (UTC)
but, do you have suggestions to improve? It would be interesting to know your solution to the problem "JarrahTree 07:55, 2 June 2018 (UTC)
(Pinging "Gnangarra, who apparently created the header.)
I don't think a shortcut is needed at all, which is why I deleted the redlink rather that create one. Note also that the shortcut points to (only) the project page, not the talk page. if you must have one on the talk page as well, it should be be WT:...
If we must have a short cut, a better one would be WP:WT/T - for Wikipedia:WikiTown/Toodyaypedia - which is more inline with "WP:SCNAMES
Note that "M" (presumably for Toodyay Museum) is not included because Museum is not part of the page name. "Mitch Ames ("talk) 09:33, 2 June 2018 (UTC)
It is very useful to have short cuts and it is expected for any of the outreach programmes that we have and are developing we will have short cuts. "JarrahTree 09:39, 2 June 2018 (UTC)
If you find a short cut, please do not play with them or reconfigure or rename - you are quoting a guideline that has a very dangerous discussion topic as part of its clarification - it requires commonsense. Commonsense was applied with the lettering for Museum of Perth project, because otherwise it went to the wrong place. "JarrahTree 09:43, 2 June 2018 (UTC)

tireless gnome updater[edit]

not sure whether there are barnstars or bones for such, but your updating sro connection in articles is tireless and thankless. Thanks "JarrahTree 09:55, 4 June 2018 (UTC)

Well it is "Western Australia Day - I have to do my bit for the state! "Mitch Ames ("talk) 09:57, 4 June 2018 (UTC)
I am sure your patriotism is purely motivated and will eventually be rewarded "JarrahTree 10:00, 4 June 2018 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for June 7[edit]

An automated process has detected that when you recently edited "Symbols of Western Australia, you added a link pointing to the disambiguation page "Royal warrant (check to confirm | fix with Dab solver).

("Opt-out instructions.) --"DPL bot ("talk) 09:15, 7 June 2018 (UTC)

WP:SUBCAT, again[edit]

The problem is not "WP:SUBCAT. This is about your constant misapplication of it to absurd ends. There is nothing in "WP:SUBCAT that supports the idea that, if an article is in a parent and child category, the default solution is automatically to delete the parent. This is because it frequently leads to absurd results. The problem is not that you are necessarily removing an article, the problem is that you continually mass-remove parents without thinking - a stance without basis in policy, guideline or common sense.

If you find an article in a parent and child category, you have found what "WP:SUBCAT correctly flags as an issue. Sometimes, the answer to that may be indeed that the parent category should be removed. Frequently, however, it is not that simple - and requires a discussion. It may be that a category needs to be labelled as non-diffusing. It may be that the child category needs to be removed. It may be that you've found a flaw in a category structure that requires a broader rework. It may be that some other problem has occurred. The only reasonable answer in those situations - not to mention civil and polite answer - is to raise them for discussion.

There was absolutely no need to check every article in Perth, nor would it be reasonable to think there was a need. There was, however, an obvious need to take a one-minute look at "Category:Suburbs of Perth, Western Australia before moving - which would have made the issue with your edits obvious.

If you refuse to discuss these changes first - you leave no alternative but to mass-revert them every time when they lead to absurd consequences, because that seems to be the only way to get you to discuss the issues you find. Please, for the love of god, discuss first in future. "The Drover's Wife ("talk) 14:10, 8 June 2018 (UTC)

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